Sep 11 2020

What are the different theories of creation? What will be your decision?

#creation #evolution #6 literal days #Drgerrybreshears

Our podcast is with Dr. Gerry Breshears, is a professor at Western Theology Seminary in Portland, OR. We discuss the theories in the Christian academic world of creation. Join us!

When Mary and I started to study the Bible, we asked the Lord what theories of creation should we adopt. We only had one version in secular schools, and that was evolution. And there are many versions of evolution as well! But, starting in Genesis 1, God gives us HIS EYEWITNESS testimony of the His narrative of when He created the universe. Eyewitness testimony is missing from secular Science. Thus, the origin of the world, plants and animals, and the universe are just theories and questions in the secular world.

We started with a "but," and we should then follow up with a problem; we want to believe the Bible and what God says, and this starts with the creation account.

I find it interesting that God put this upfront in the Bible. Why? Because what we believe matters in our origins and this belief in our origins affects many things. For example, our worship, sin, eternity, to name a few. Was it 6 literal days or long ages? I was surprised in Christian academia; there are many different theories of "how" God created.

At the end of our discussion, I address my thoughts, and it will ask this question: How big, or small is your God?

We should ask ourselves another question. What is Science? Science is a methodology to discover the truth. Here is an internet definition. "Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence. [The] Scientific methodology includes the following: Objective observation: Measurement and data (possibly although not necessarily using mathematics as a tool)". Based on this definition, isn't it interesting that the theory of evolution is touted as fact? Change from one "kind" of an animal to the next. Change to suit an enviroment? A big bang. Fossils from every environment (marine, land, freshwater) found in the same layers! Soft tissue in dinos? That was a significant discovery for me, but it can only remain a theory because there isn't any "evidence," just interpretation of the data FROM A SCIENTIFIC PARTICULAR WORLDVIEW (which is another way of saying philosophy)! So our approach to the "science" matters. Our worldview matters.

Belief in God is absent in some worldviews, as well as it should because evidence should matter. But why is being anti-god in Science make you more objective of a scientist? It doesn't. Many of the great scientists were Christians with a creation worldview. (Newton, Maury, Bacon) Did that make them less of a scientist? No. But some people in the science world say you cannot be objective if you believe in God. Garbage logic. We could also apply that to those that don't believe in God, right? The goal of Science is to discover the truth, WHEREVER THAT LEADS. But in this case, it matters to us who are bible studiers searching for the correct interpretation of the Bible to get to the revelation of God. We need to know if God did this in 6 literal days. Does our "faith" depend on whether we take God at His testimony? Or does it? It mattered to Abraham. He journeyed to a foreign land based on God's word to him. This action (faith in God's word) led to an entire nation and eventually, our faith in Christ. Our origins and how we perceive them matter. Listen to the podcast prayerfully. Six literal days matters!

Ric Joyner gives his thoughts before and after this fun talk. Will you join us and share? Please comment.

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ric joyner breshears.net drgerrybreshears bible study company creation creation sciencxe what does science say about creation 6 literal days Posted by Ric and Mary Joyner

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Kathy Sep 12 2020

This was really interesting and I have thought a lot about how should I consider science in my life, so really helpful for me to think it through. The phrase that kept coming to my mind on how to evaluate Genesis 1 and 2 was around the various verses that say not to add or take away from HIs words or commands. Based on that, I personally would be suspect of churches that don't just take the literal meaning of the scripture, specifically because of what you talked about regarding what we can't know. If we can't know or understand it, I really believe the only thing left to do is on some level just to take His Word for it. We can think about it, but that only helps us understand more about Him than what we are wondering about in my experience. That's what I see in your podcasts as well, and I think that's a sign of something really good. I think these vague unknowable things may be about telling us more about HIm than we realize. So for me the question becomes, "based on Scripture what can we know?". The definitive things in my mind we can know based on Scripture are 6 literal 24 hour days, the 7th day Shabbat, the order He created in, that it was good, and actually I think how. I feel like He did tell us how He created when He told us He said. We just don't understand it because it's beyond us. But I think maybe the biggest take away is just about Who He is and His character and what He calls good. That's how I personally contextualize the issue about death of animals before the fall or not. It seems like somehow that's adding into scripture because it seems to disregard the heart of it. G-d's nature even comes into question if you really think about it. So I do think we have certain parameters to gauge our assumptions and conclusions by based on the character and purposes He reveals in Scripture. That uncertainty about whether animals died before the fall or not also causes us to run into issues in my mind about what G-d was doing when He killed the animals to make Adam and Eve coverings after the fall, and then therefore what we assume and understand about sacrifice as believers in Messiah Yeshua. I think that revelation He gives us through Scripture helps us come to terms with what we can't know in passages like Genesis 1. For example, how did Yeshua heal people? We can't really answer how He did that either, but He often just spoke it. That gives me personally more reason to believe in the Genesis account of creation literally as G-d spoke it into being. We can't know the how, but we can know the why in both instances and that's where we can have the faith not just to believe in the Creation account as written but the nature and vastness of G-d who could just speak it. I think these questions we can't answer kind of help us learn more about Him and His nature, and that's where we find a wisdom we can't find in this world. Because G-d loves, He loves life and He is great and good we can have faith in what He says and faith in Him in the unknown as well. That's about revelation more than answering questions I think. Even what He reveals to us as the final state in Revelations in my mind is context for how we can understand the state of Creation in the beginning. I think that's where you get into the revelation and relationship aspect that accompanies the scripture study that I hear you elude to a lot in your podcasts. I really do see you doing that. You're not searching for answers as much as you are G-d, and so you leaves so much room for Him to reveal Himself. I personally didn't realize how much I needed someone just to help me feel safe enough to ask the questions. I didn't realize how much relationship building He does through that. I also just want to share something that has helped me make sense of the role of science in my life and understanding. Science is not acknowledging the spiritual. Because of that, I regard the observations but not the assumptions or the conclusions. Science has left an entire realm of existence completely out of all they've assumed and tested. It's faulty at it's base because it doesn't account for the miraculous or spiritual. It is fundamentally very incomplete and so it should help us not pigeon hole us. I finally was able to put it in it's place once I realized they're own method is not even being met adequately as they haven't factored in an entire realm of existence for which they cannot control for. They would have to throw out all of it based on their own requirements.

This was really interesting and I have thought a lot about how should I consider science in my life, so really helpful for me to think it through. The phrase that kept coming to my mind on how to evaluate Genesis 1 and 2 was around the various verses that say not to add or take away from HIs words or commands. Based on that, I personally would be suspect of churches that don't just take the literal meaning of the scripture, specifically because of what you talked about regarding what we can't know.  If we can't know or understand it, I really believe the only thing left to do is on some level just to take His Word for it. We can think about it, but that only helps us understand more about Him than what we are wondering about in my experience.  That's what I see in your podcasts as well, and I think that's a sign of something really good. I think these vague unknowable things may be about telling us more about HIm than we realize.  So for me the question becomes, "based on Scripture what can we know?". The definitive things in my mind we can know based on Scripture are 6 literal 24 hour days, the 7th day Shabbat, the order He created in, that it was good, and actually I think how. I feel like He did tell us how He created when He told us He said.  We just don't understand it because it's beyond us.  But I think maybe the biggest take away is just about Who He is and His character and what He calls good. That's how I personally contextualize the issue about death of animals before the fall or not.  It seems like somehow that's adding into scripture because it seems to disregard the heart of it. G-d's nature even comes into question if you really think about it.  So I do think we have certain parameters to gauge our assumptions and conclusions by based on the character and purposes He reveals in Scripture. That uncertainty about whether animals died before the fall or not also causes us to run into issues in my mind about what G-d was doing when He killed the animals to make Adam and Eve coverings after the fall, and then therefore what we assume and understand about sacrifice as believers in Messiah Yeshua.   I think that revelation He gives us through Scripture helps us come to terms with what we can't know in passages like Genesis 1.   For example, how did Yeshua heal people?  We can't really answer how He did that either, but He often just spoke it.  That gives me personally more reason to believe in the Genesis account of creation literally as G-d spoke it into being.  We can't know the how, but we can know the why in both instances and that's where we can have the faith not just to believe in the Creation account as written but the nature and vastness of G-d who could just speak it.  I think these questions we can't answer kind of help us learn more about Him and His nature, and that's where we find a wisdom we can't find in this world. Because G-d loves, He loves life and He is great and good we can have faith in what He says and faith in Him in the unknown as well.  That's about revelation more than answering questions I think. Even what He reveals to us as the final state in Revelations in my mind is context for how we can understand the state of Creation in the beginning.  I think that's where you get into the revelation and relationship aspect that accompanies the scripture study that I hear you elude to a lot in your podcasts.  I really do see you doing that.  You're not searching for answers as much as you are G-d, and so you leaves so much room for Him to reveal Himself.  I personally didn't realize how much I needed someone just to help me feel safe enough to ask the questions.  I didn't realize how much relationship building He does through that.  I also just want to share something that has helped me make sense of the role of science in my life and understanding.  Science is not acknowledging the spiritual.  Because of that, I regard the observations but not the assumptions or the conclusions.  Science has left an entire realm of existence completely out of all they've assumed and tested.  It's faulty at it's base because it doesn't account for the miraculous or spiritual. It is fundamentally very incomplete and so it should help us not pigeon hole us.  I finally was able to put it in it's place once I realized they're own method is not even being met adequately as they haven't factored in an entire realm of existence for which they cannot control for.  They would have to throw out all of it based on their own requirements.

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